Working as one of the chief budget writers in the Washington State Senate for the first time, Sen. Joe Nguyen needed to discuss and debate hundreds of items, collectively worth billions of dollars, across a wide range of policy areas.
Nguyen (D-White Center) found it difficult to make informed decisions in meetings with his fellow House and Senate budget writers by just looking at a one-line description for each item, even with the help of the staffers in the room.
“Staff are amazing, and they’re fantastic,” he said. “I’m not going to take anything away from them. But as the new person coming into this … I didn’t want to look as if I didn’t know what I was doing.”
So he used ChatGPT to help gather information and structure arguments.
“The moment there was something that came up that I cared about, I would say, ‘Well, actually, we’ve been doing this for about 10 years, you spend about this much money, this is the outcome, five other states do this, and data suggests this is the right way to go.’ Done. Debate’s over. We win. We won every single time.”
That’s just one example of how he’s using AI in the role.
“In the legislature, we get reports all the time, and I actually like to read reports. I will spend my evenings reading the newest economic forecast council [report]. It’s always interesting nuggets, but they are 5,200 pages and they’re very, very dense and there’s no way you can physically go through all of them,” he said.
“So with ChatGPT, you can upload documents, you can have it scan the documents, summarize it, I’ll ask it questions,” he explained. “I’ll get basically 80% of the context of that document within a minute, literally a minute, when normally it would take you probably two hours to read. So I will just crush reports.”
Those are some of the insights shared by Nguyen on this episode of Shift AI, a show that explores what it takes to adapt to the changing workplace in the digital age of remote work and AI.
Nguyen, lead sponsor of a bill to establish an AI task force in Washington state, also discusses his background in the technology industry, including his prior role at Microsoft, his experience in the Washington State Senate, and how he is using AI and other technologies to push the limits of what’s possible in the legislative process.
Listen above, watch a video below, and continue reading for highlights from his comments, edited for context and clarity. Subscribe to Shift AI and hear more episodes at ShiftAIPodcast.com.
His family’s journey: I have a picture on my wall in my office in Olympia of the boat my family used to escape Vietnam. So my father fought in the South Vietnamese Navy alongside the US Navy, and he [evacuated] out with everybody else in the 70s. So for three years, my mother and my older sister didn’t know if he was alive or dead, because there was no email, you can’t just make a cell phone call, there’s no apps to use to reach somebody. And stories are coming out about how people are escaping on boats. … Thankfully, the US Coast Guard, which was patrolling the water at that time, found [my mom and sister] and picked them up. They were able to be in Japan before they met my father in Seattle, where my siblings and I were born. And that’s kind of the origin story.
The reason why that’s such an important story for me is that, oftentimes, we’ll get messages from people that say, “Hey, isn’t this hard … isn’t being a legislator hard? Isn’t your work hard?” And the answer is, you know, certainly it is hard, but then I look at that photo, and that was a lot harder. So I’m just honored to be here.
Background and early experience: My father was one of the founding Vietnamese members in the Catholic Church here in the United States, and Seattle specifically, and he helped physically build a church that’s here that was kind of the cultural epicenter for the Vietnamese community. What really had an impact on me was his accident. So my father was in a car accident when I was seven or six years old. I was actually the one that found him in his accident, and it left him quadriplegic, left him brain damaged. And that obviously took a toll on our family.
One of my most vivid memories growing up was when my brother and I would have to carry him up and down the front steps of our house, because he was in a wheelchair and we didn’t have a ramp. Our neighbor drives by one day and says, “Hey, I saw you carrying your dad, why don’t you guys build a ramp?” Obviously, the answer, is we couldn’t afford a ramp, we were too poor. The next weekend, he comes by with his buddies, and builds a ramp for us that we then use for the 13 years that he was able to live beyond that time.
This is not just a legislative district. I don’t think that I would serve anywhere else, except for in this district, because these people literally picked me and my family up in our time of need, and now I feel obligated to do that and give back to the community, as well.
Facial recognition legislation: That was probably the most contentious bill I’ve ever done. And I learned so much throughout that process, because there’s a difference between policy and politics. That’s the foremost thing that you have to understand.
When I first came into the legislature, one of the best pieces of advice that I received was that the legislature fundamentally is set up to solve yesterday’s problems. Tomorrow is inherently slow. I found that the policy drafting wasn’t actually that hard. We were able to figure out a path that made sense that everyone was happy with. Explaining to people the need for thoughtful policy that wasn’t going to ban technology on accident was actually the core crux.
AI regulation in Washington State: We’re the home of two of the largest tech companies in the world, right so we should be leading the conversation on some of these things. In terms of Washington’s ability to lead on this, it’s so important because oftentimes, what we do is nation leading, and then it becomes law in other places. So we have to get it right, or else you’re going to see things not go well, in other parts of the country. Washington has always been a leader, when it comes to Boeing, to e-commerce, to technology with Microsoft, Amazon, everything else as well and we certainly should be at the forefront when it comes to AI, because we have that ecosystem here already.
Using AI for negotiation: There was this huge battle that we had within our caucus [about forestry management]. And our majority leader said, “Nguyen, go negotiate a deal, you got three days” So I go, I sit down, I have 0% knowledge about forestry, the only thing I knew about forestry management was where I could go hiking with my kids, I had no clue what it was at all. …
As we’re going, my job was to find that path, find that common ground for us to actually make progress. So during this time, I would just talk to ChatGPT and have it figure out basic talking points that I would need, things that I would have to consider. If there was something that I couldn’t get from ChatGPT, I would ask my staff, as well, and I learned so much from that experience. Long story short, we were able to pass a bill and a budget that both sides wanted, that was thoughtful.
AI in society: We had a really productive committee hearing a couple of weeks ago, where it was focused on AI, and the use of AI and society as a whole. Everything from the security risks associated with potentially using that data for bad things, and the impacts it could potentially have on labor, as well. My committee had an AI committee hearing, Labor & Commerce had an AI and the Workforce hearing and then even Early education had an AI hearing around what that looks like. So obviously, there’s a lot of energy behind it right now. …
So in my mind when it comes to regulation for safeguards as relates to AI it’s the outcomes that you want to address. So if there’s high risk categories, whether it’s in law enforcement, surveillance, financial matters, interviews, where there’s a potential human impact, if something goes wrong, I think that there should be a certain level of review. I think the technology itself should help augment the work that we’re doing. …
And for us, as a society, we have to have the social contract and say, Hey, what is off limits? What should we be able to do, but also with some review, because you don’t want to have automated bias going widespread.
AI in Seattle: We have the Allen Institute for AI, we have UW, we have WSU, we have these great technology hubs here. How do we ensure that the technology being deployed is done in a thoughtful way, and is done in a way that’s commensurate with our values? Part of that is a public-private partnership, in my mind — how do you have these innovation clusters and how do you support research? …
Things that we can do in Washington state is: help offset some of the costs for research; allow for innovation and growth when it comes to physical spaces; providing equipment if needed, as well. And this is not new. This is what we did when Microsoft was founded, in South Lake Union with Amazon, with clean energy. So there are ways for us to engage as a public sector to encourage positive growth, which is where I want us to go.
The future of work and basic income: If you look at the trajectory of technology, and you look at that output for our GDP, as it relates to the human population, especially in the United States, we’ve seen greater growth historically than we ever have before, and the idea that automation, and the idea that AI could potentially impact our jobs is a very real thing. …
I see that the divide in income and the divide in digital equity is going to get worse, where folks who can use technology are going to do really well, and those who cannot use technology are not going to do very well. …
So the reason why basic income is important is I don’t think that it’s going to replace your income as a whole, but there needs to be a kind of a baseline at which we are able to give services to folks. So that way they’re not going to be struggling to get housing, to get food, to get a job, where they’re able to actually elevate some of their skills, and learn and grow while this technology is kind of changing, as well.
Listen to the full episode of Shift AI with State Senator Joe Nguyen here.
