This is an audio transcript of the Life and Art from FT Weekend podcast episode: Comfort watch — Something’s Gotta Give (2003)
Lilah Raptopoulos
Welcome to Life and Art from FT Weekend. I’m Lilah Raptopoulos, and this is our Friday chat show. It’s winter, the season of cold weather, dark days, and very few new releases. So today we’re going to do something a little different and bring a classic film into the studio. And not just any classic. We have chosen a romcom, a cinematic masterpiece, the 2003 Nancy Meyers original, Something’s Gotta Give. So Something’s Gotta Give, you probably remember it. It stars Diane Keaton and Jack Nicholson. She is Erica, a successful divorced playwright. He is Harry, also known as old, old, Old Hair, a successful record exec. And the twist of the film, which you may remember, is that he’s not young and neither is she. It’s a movie about a romance between a man in his 60s and a woman in her 50s. When the film starts, Harry is actually dating Erica’s daughter, played by Amanda Peet, who is in her 20s. And then, of course, drama and self-discovery ensue.
So let’s get into it. I am here with two wonderful guests in the New York studio. I, of course, am Lilah. Old, old, old fly. With me is comedian and actress Negin Farsad. Negin is our very first guest on the chat show from outside the FT universe. She is the host of the Fake the Nation podcast, which is really an excellent, fun, very interesting show. And in the words of the film, she is a woman to love.
Negin Farsad
(laughter) Hello. Thanks so much for having me. And I have a pair of scissors here. If at any point I need to rip off my own clothes.
Lilah Raptopoulos
We have no turtlenecks in the room today. We did not come prepared. Welcome. To my right is the great Eric Platt, the FT’s senior corporate finance correspondent. And I have to say, Eric was an inspiration for this episode because he is a huge fan of this film and the Nancy Meyers universe.
Eric Platt
So kind to share it. (laughter)
Lilah Raptopoulos
Welcome, Eric.
Eric Platt
I watch it once a quarter at least, which probably says more about me than anything else.
Negin Farsad
I also love that you designate that by fiscal quarter. The most ridiculous . . .
Lilah Raptopoulos
Corporate reporters, right?
Eric Platt
You can’t miss that.
Lilah Raptopoulos
So before we start, Eric, just to jump further into that, every couple, maybe every quarter, you will post a scene on your Instagram from Something’s Gotta Give. Like, it’ll be Diane Keaton crying and typing. And you will write, I don’t know, like me filing a scoop from vacation. How did you get into this film? Like, what is your love for it about?
Eric Platt
I think it hits so many beautiful themes, right? One about loneliness and relationships. It’s also this fantastic comedy. Like, the scene where she’s crying. I don’t know if someone can make those noises with their mouth, right, like in that kind of guttural pain. And yet you’re laughing through this sadness, and I think there’s something about that that’s kind of uplifting. It’s also, I’m a huge fan of a romcom like You’ve Got Mail. And this one just, it’s so drawn like, it’s sumptuous almost, right? It gives you so much time with these characters to really fall in love with them. And there’s something about that that’s so familial and why I keep coming back to it.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Cool. Negin, we are thrilled to have you here. When I asked you to watch this film, had you seen it before? Had you not? Did you remember it fondly? Did you think I was nuts?
Negin Farsad
I had totally seen it. When did it come out again?
Lilah Raptopoulos
2003.
Negin Farsad
2003. I totally seen it before. It’s entirely possible that I saw it in the theatre. And I also, it’s also I think one of those movie was that was like just sort of on the TV. So if you were flipping like you could catch Diane Keaton wailing. I must have seen it during some sort of like, hallmark break-up in my life or something, where you cry so much that it does become comical. Like you make yourself laugh because you’re like, what am I even doing? Like, ultimately, this guy was dumb. Like, it’s funny too, because you’re just like, she’s crying over Jack Nicholson. And then, I mean, I gotta be honest, I’m not sleeping with him, like, in that movie, you know what I mean? And so . . .
Lilah Raptopoulos
He looks like he’s about to pop a little bit. He doesn’t look healthy.
Negin Farsad
The movie starts with his heart attack.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Right.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Let’s recap the plot for listeners who may not know. So, Something’s Gotta Give is written and directed by the great Nancy Meyers, who also did The Holiday, The Parent Trap, What Women Want, It’s Complicated. Lots of films about very successful women with very nice kitchens. First thing to know about this film, everybody is rich, everybody’s white, everybody’s white. In the first ten minutes, Harry — Jack Nicholson — is driving to his young girlfriend’s house in the Hamptons for this sexy weekend. And immediately they are surprised by her mother, Erica, who is Diane Keaton. And, props to her aunt, who’s Frances McDormand, who I did not remember was a part of this.
Negin Farsad
Me neither, I was surprised.
Lilah Raptopoulos
I know, OK, then just as Harry and, the daughter Marin retire to bed, ready to consummate their relationship. Harry has a heart attack. He gets rushed to the hospital, and the only place that he can stay to recover is Diane Keaton’s home. Just with her. So there’s, like, days and days where the two of them are together. Pitter pattering around the house, bantering, until they start to develop feelings.
Negin Farsad
Wearing . . . they just develop feelings wearing all white, both of them on a on the shores of the Hamptons. And she’s wearing, as Jack Nicholson points out, like, why do you wear a turtleneck in the middle of summer?
Lilah Raptopoulos
She wears a turtleneck, uh, every day.
Negin Farsad
Because you guys, her neck is disgusting. The woman is 56 years old. I mean, she’s practically dead.
Lilah Raptopoulos
There’s really a whole thing about women and age and necks and . . .
Eric Platt
I took all of this as a metaphor. Right? Like I need to protect myself. I can’t show any skin. I need to be like, yes, everything must be covered, or else I’m letting someone in.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah.
Negin Farsad
Vulnerability shield. Yes.
Lilah Raptopoulos
May I add the twist, which is that Erica — Diane Keaton — is simultaneously being pursued by a hot younger man. Harry’s doctor, played by 30-something year old Keanu Reeves.
Eric Platt
Just spectacular.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah. So Erica thinks she’s sexually retired and is now in this love triangle. And the question on all of our minds is, does she go for the dirty old man, or does she go for this sexy young feminist king who idolises her? And the answer surprises no one.
Negin Farsad
Like, can we say who she ends up with at this point?
Lilah Raptopoulos
I think it’s been about 21 years, so I think it’s allowed. Spoiler.
Negin Farsad
I mean, so even though, you know, she ends up with Keanu Reeves in Paris and blah, blah, blah. Jack Nicholson comes to find her. Um, when Keanu sees her with Jack Nicholson, he realises that they’re in love and he bows out off screen. And she goes back and, you know.
Lilah Raptopoulos
And happily ever after with Jack.
Negin Farsad
Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I mean, would you would you guys choose Jack over Keanu in this situation? Would choose Jack over Keanu?
Eric Platt
God, no. I would choose Keanu.
Negin Farsad
Like, it’s funny because my parents said something to me recently, which is like, you know, obviously we love our children and our, you know, our grandkid and all that stuff. But, like, ultimately, we enjoy the company of our peers a lot more. They just like said that to my face. And I was like, I guess Merry Christmas. And I was like, oh, but I get it. So I think there’s something about being generationally bound, you know, I think there’s something about, oh my God, those are my reading glasses. So you know what I mean. Like, I think that stuff is somehow comforting.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Lilah Raptopoulos
So what transpires, uh, feelings wise, between these three people in this love triangle?
Negin Farsad
I mean, I think there’s, like, this sort of classic thing that happens with Jack Nicholson, and he’s how old in this movie? 63. Right. OK. The character’s 63. And he’s got this, like, total arrested development. He’s acting like he’s a young bachelor in New York City. And he’s truly behaving like every man I dated in my 20s. Like, he just doesn’t want to commit. He goes from woman to woman to woman. Never been married. Right? So he’s playing a really archetypal character in that sense. And in the heart attack is this like sea change event because when the vessel starts to fray, it’s sad that this guy is still doing that. Right? Suddenly, like, oh, and you have no one to lean on except for a total stranger who happens to be Diane Keaton.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Who hates you.
Negin Farsad
Who hates you.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Hmm. Yeah.
Eric Platt
I think it’s perfect. I think when I look at Erica, I think the arc she’s going on is, she’s this neurotic people-pleaser, right? The successful playwright, clearly well-educated, but she’s closed herself off. She’s also unwilling to kind of step into the gap of new relationships. She’s filling her life with hobbies. I’m gonna learn French. I’m gonna write a new play. And so this film is just you’re slowly seeing those barriers, like, pulled down. And what happens when she’s just left with that raw emotion of, like, actually letting someone, letting two people in? And the joy she finds. Right. Uh, like putting in a weekend where she just falls in love with Jack Nicholson. She says, like, I didn’t know I liked sex, right? Like, I haven’t done it in 20 years. And you just think, wow, you’ve, yeah, you’ve closed yourself off because of the potential pain or the hurt that she might experience. So I think through her I see this kind of transformation of like, oh, I do want to put myself out there. I do want to experience the world.
Negin Farsad
Absolutely. And I think the sex was for her was that like sea-change event where she realised . . . also the scissors. Take a moment.
Eric Platt
So literal.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah. I mean over the course of her changing her sort of like outlook on life, she goes from wearing turtlenecks to wearing open neck sweaters.
Negin Farsad
Yeah. Which is like so . . . and her turtlenecks are so commented on, right? And the other hilarious thing was how much attention was devoted to her physicality and like, nothing to his physicality, which was again, maybe he’s a nice man, whatever. And I hope the best for him and all that. But he was gross, like just straight up gross. And the fact that nobody talked about it, they’re just like, oh, he has a thing. What thing? What is the thing that he supposedly has? I don’t see it.
Lilah Raptopoulos
It’s the wink-wink, Jack Nicholson thing.
Eric Platt
That verve. Right? I don’t know. I think that’s what’s so special about this movie, it was like, look at these two characters who are not your, like, it’s not Meg Ryan and Tom Hanks. This is your real life. This is something or maybe something in your mind that you can approximate as a future.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah, yeah.
Eric Platt
Do you want to be sexual in your 50s or 60s? I think that’s the question. Right? Like I’ve got 30 years to go, so we’ll find out. But like, yeah, I think that’s what Nancy’s kind of pulling apart in all this, I hope.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Lilah Raptopoulos
I’d like to dig a little deeper into like, kind of what the film is saying, uh, and some of the themes that we’re talking about. One, what did we make of the fact that everybody was rich and white? Like, looking back on it now, 21 years later how did it handle, like, I don’t know. That is something about it that felt, uh, uh . . .
Negin Farsad
Dated.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Dated. It felt like it’s no longer part of the romcom fantasy.
Eric Platt
I think that’s one of the things that age so poorly. Right? When Jack is actually giving his background and he says, I’m in the hip hop industry, and her response is just, oh, rap. How many words can you rhyme with, bitch? Right? And I think it’s meant to be this feminist overture, but really it’s just kind of completely diminishing.
Negin Farsad
Yeah. I also just think it’s hilarious, you know, knowing now, like, playwrights do not earn enough money. They just don’t. You don’t. You’re not. It’s like, if they were like, oh, she’s a playwright. and also she writes some episodes of Law & Order or whatever, then we’re talking, then we can talk, right? But she’s not buying a Hamptons house on playwright money.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah, yeah.
Eric Platt
There’s no way, right, that Sondheim had a $10mn house in the Hamptons, and that wasn’t happening. But, like, somehow that is the basis for this movie.
Negin Farsad
Right? Exactly.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Lilah Raptopoulos
What about the dynamic of men and women? Like what men are supposed to want and what women are supposed to want? Our producer Lulu thinks that this movie was more progressive than Barbie. Like, actually a little less obvious that it’s about, like, social conditioning and how you fight against gender roles after you get to a certain age and that sort of thing. When Barbie was a little more, uh, about like, girls, boys.
Negin Farsad
Is there a little bit of that, like, Diane Keaton did a full-frontal nudity, like Diane Keaton walked so that J. Lo could run. Is there a little bit of that going on? Because, like, you know, I just watched The Mother, which is why J. Lo is so heavily on my mind. J. Lo is 54 years old right now. In the movie, Diane Keaton is 56. And it’s funny because it’s just like Diane Keaton is playing this sort of, like, very much post-menopausal, a little frail, you know what I mean? A little like, oh, I might show my wrist, you know, mean like a little bit of that. And J. Lo is not at all that, like, basically she’s playing a spy. She’s kicking down doors. She’s got abs. Lots and lots of abs.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah, many.
Negin Farsad
And it’s like, oh, that’s now the woman that’s, you know, it’s a problem as well as, uh, you know, it’s awesome and bad at the same time.
Lilah Raptopoulos
So what you’re saying is, like Diane Keaton in that film, the role was women in their 50s can have desire, just like, kind of that’s it.
Eric Platt
We’re opening the door to that.
Negin Farsad
I know, it’s like a little crack in the door. Yeah.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah, exactly. Um, yeah. But they did talk about her like she was 75 and she had this like, oh, who, me? No, no, no, not me. Um, that. Yeah. Halle Berry is 57. And hot. But you’re right. There’s like, something there where something stays the same, and then something has changed so much that now, uh, that now we all have to.
Negin Farsad
Have abs in our 50s.
Eric Platt
You know what I think this movie like to that point of what women want or kind of where it was in time, it was just like, you don’t have the agency to actually ask for what you want. In that opening scene, when she clearly doesn’t want this stranger in her house, she has to say, I can handle it. I’m good.
Lilah Raptopoulos
That was her form of feminism is I can handle it.
Eric Platt
I can give my daughter. I can take as many punches as necessary. I can get through this. It was very like, head down, but I’m like, I’m gonna get through it. But it also went to this like, you know, trying to be this perfect mother giving whatever my kids want or my husband needs, or like the fact that her daughter leaves that weekend. What?
Negin Farsad
I mean.
Eric Platt
How insane is that? Her boyfriend is going to stay with your mom, and you’re just going to go back to the city to work.
Lilah Raptopoulos
There was a period, the time that this film came out is a period of time where there were a lot of movies about older people and older women and older couples. It was the time of It’s Complicated with Meryl Streep and Alec Baldwin.
Eric Platt
I think that was later, though, right?
Lilah Raptopoulos
That was a little bit later. As Good As It Gets came out around that time.
Negin Farsad
Was that Helen Hunt?
Lilah Raptopoulos
Helen Hunt and Jack Nicholson, right? And First Wives Club was around that time.
Negin Farsad
Oh, wow. Yeah.
Eric Platt
That was the OG.
Lilah Raptopoulos
That was the OG. I kind of wonder, like, why that was such a big topic then and why it doesn’t seem to be explored as much now.
Negin Farsad
You know, it’s interesting. I have a theory about that, which is just that it follows divorce rates because like, so my kid is five and they’re very, I mean, very, very few divorced parents in her kindergarten class. But when I was growing up in the 80s and 90s, there was a ton of divorce. So if you look at screenplays is like a thing you write about that you knew, it’s if you were a child of divorce or you saw a lot of divorces in the 80s and 90s, you’re sort of like writing about that and then writing about the aftermath. And so there’s just like this bevy of movies that comes out in the 2000s that reflect the divorce rate from the 80s and 90s. And now, just as if it’s like. Something else is going on. Also people are marrying so much later that divorce rates are lower because people are marrying at a more mature age. And so it’s like we’re not making those, you know, practical decisions for marriage that happen. And like my mom’s generation was like, well I’m 19 and so is this guy, which is as good a reason as any to get married, you know.
Eric Platt
I think there’s just stigma around divorce, right, that’s just dissipated with time.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah.
Eric Platt
What kind of people didn’t go to therapy at that point? Right. So it was like, yeah. So you have The First Wives Club, right? Like, kidnap your husbands and take over the business is to make a point to survive. And that’s, you don’t have to do that anymore.
Lilah Raptopoulos
I also think that, like, uh, there is, like, a cutesification of old people that happened in this movie where it’s like, oh, look how cute they are. Look how cute Diane Keaton is. That had to happen in films back then. And now I feel like the audience for that is just going to TikTok and watching old people who have become sort of influencers on TikTok, like people are sort of interviewing their grandmothers and saying, oh, that’s so cute that you, you know, still remember that recipe or you’re giving me advice about dating in my 20s? I don’t know, I feel like I’m seeing, the place that I’m seeing old people now is not the old people in movies are hot, so they don’t seem like old people. And the old people that I’m really watching are on the internet, are kind of on social media.
Negin Farsad
The other interesting thing about old people now is how many of them are online dating.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah.
Negin Farsad
You know, or like The Golden Bachelor. I mean, that was a phenomenon. We want, it’s, we’re in this space where we sort of like want to see old people fall in love. I mean, that was, that was a juggernaut, The Golden Bachelor. So if that’s some kind of sign of the times and I wonder how it squares with something like Something’s Gotta Give, you know what I mean? I’m not sure.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Well, one of the interesting things to me about The Golden Bachelor is that it’s also that those women were not like your quintessential 75 year old woman. They were like yoga instructors.
Negin Farsad
One of them was a former dancer for Prince. Yes.
Lilah Raptopoulos
It was sort of an idealisation of ageing.
Negin Farsad
But also it’s weird because you look at like a lot of women, you know, just to compare photos of, you know, my grandmother at my then and to my mother at the same age. And my grandmother looked so much older. I just think, like people take care of themselves in a different way. We have a different concept of nutrition. We have, you know, medical science that’ll just keep people alive forever. So the, you know, the idea that you age is in question.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah.
Eric Platt
Like act how you or dress how you age. What does that mean anymore?
Negin Farsad
Yeah.
Lilah Raptopoulos
No, it’s true, I do. I look at my dad who’s just turned 80, and he looks better than Jack Nicholson.
Negin Farsad
Oh, I mean, that’s exactly. Yeah.
Eric Platt
Yeah, I feel like the conservatism that used to be enforced, as you got older, it feels like that’s totally been pulled back. I feel like maybe there’s a comfort now of because I’m older and seeing my parents and thinking about myself when I get to that age, actually wanting to still have a life. And I talked to friends and some are still uncomfortable talking about sex with their parents. I’m like, why? When you are in your 60s, aren’t you going to want to have the same active lifestyle? Aren’t you going to want to feel this love and devotion and everything that actually this movie tries to depict.
Lilah Raptopoulos
In your 70s and your 80s.
Eric Platt
Right? Why does it have to stop? Why does that go away? That’d be so devastating.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Lilah Raptopoulos
Oh, man. OK, so this is great fun. I want to ask our last question, what are our final takeaways? Like, what did we learn from watching this that we’re thinking about now, going into watching movies in this great year of 2024?
Eric Platt
For me, it’s I mean, the theme that I come back to, I think that, like my final take on it is like, it’s that love makes you unglued, right? You do crazy things in a good romcom. That’s what it does. It’s meant to make you be yourself, but not yourself. That’s why I’m like praying someone at Warner Brothers is like picking up the phone and calling Nancy Meyer after the Netflix deal got dropped. Because, like, I want to see that next great romcom again.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Can you explain what happened with Nancy Meyers?
Eric Platt
Yeah. My understanding is she had a deal to take, was it a kind of biopic of herself, but like a, a romcom centred on herself to Netflix? And she asked for another $20mn. And because this is going to go straight to streaming, Netflix, they cancelled the deal. And so my hope is that Warner Brothers Universal, who would actually give this a proper box office moment, would come in and actually invest.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Right. I mean, it makes you like, OK, Martin Scorsese and everybody’s making these, like, very, very expensive movies that they know are going to get paid back.
Eric Platt
Her movies make money.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Her movies make a lot of money.
Eric Platt
People come out to see her movies.
Lilah Raptopoulos
But those movies aren’t going to the theatres anymore. Uh, I don’t think that there are many romcoms that are going to the theatres anymore.
Negin Farsad
Well, I mean, I think this is also part of my big takeaway is that we sort of, like, look at filmmakers like Martin Scorsese, we give them carte blanche to spend whatever they want. And I think that’s great. But then we sort of don’t put people like Nancy in that same category. Whereas I think she’s had just as much of a cultural impact. She’s just had it on the lighter side of things. And so we somehow don’t like prize that as much. And I think that, like, these films are part of the canon of cinema, you know, and I know the canon of cinema is more highfalutin than all that. But, like, this has really had an impact, I think, culturally on and like you said, it’s made a lot of money. This was a very popular movie. A lot of her movies were very popular. So the idea that, like, we shouldn’t have the same respect for her as like an elder stateswoman of filmmaking to me feels sad. So I feel like, give her the money, let her do it. Also, though, Nancy, you could probably still make it for 130mn. You don’t need 150, right? Like you’re really gonna make it work.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah. Negin and Eric, thank you so much. We will be back in just a moment for More or Less.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Lilah Raptopoulos
Welcome back to More or Less, the part of the show where each guest says something that they want more of or less of culturally. Eric, what do you got?
Eric Platt
So this is something I sent you months ago maybe. Culturally, this is on the fashion side of things, I think the thing I want more this year is crop tops and adventure for men in fashion. I’m really bored of, like, these staid, boring suit. I want to see fun. I want some vibrance. I want a show that, like, we’re all going to the gym again, right? Everybody’s working on it post-pandemic.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Or getting those abs.
Eric Platt
Show them off. Right? Like who cares? But yeah, that’s what I would like to see more of in 2024.
Lilah Raptopoulos
More crop tops.
Eric Platt
More crop tops. More adventurous fashion from the men I’m seeing both in the office and on the street.
Lilah Raptopoulos
OK. Negin, what about you?
Negin Farsad
Well, my recommendation, uh, is very much inspired by the conversation we had, because this is a romcom that we watched. But I want just a com-com. I want more comedy. I feel like drama has just taken just centre position in culture. We value them and prize them so much. We get so ensconced in these shows. Um, and I love them too. However, God, why don’t we have more comedies? And I just want more 30-minute actual comedies. I feel like the people of America deserve it.
Lilah Raptopoulos
We do? Those are both amazing. Thank you. Um, I want an exercise fad to sweep the, uh, this great nation of ours. I’m tired of Peloton. That happened. It’s over. And I want to jump on a bandwagon. I decided as a way to create an exercise fad for myself, I would sign up for the New York City Marathon and, ran at most 16 miles, and then, uh, my IT bands gave out and I couldn’t run it. And so now I just like, I want, we’re walking into the void of winter. I’m feeling lethargic. I want this sort of like everyone’s baking sourdough of the fitness world. I’ll do whatever.
Negin Farsad
That’s fun. Yeah. I mean, maybe you should resurrect, like, a Zumba or something.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Negin. Eric, thank you so much. This was so much fun. And you’ve made me think a lot about comedy and romance and the future for all the old people of America. Thanks for being on the show.
Negin Farsad
Thanks so much for having me.
Eric Platt
Thanks for having me on.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Lilah Raptopoulos
That’s the show. Thank you for listening to Life and Art from FT Weekend. I highly recommend that you check out Negin’s podcast, Fake the Nation. I have link to it in the show notes, alongside a piece that she wrote recently on going on a mushroom retreat. The show notes also have links to where you can follow Eric, where you can keep in touch with me on Instagram and how to email the show because we love hearing from you. I’m Lilah Raptopoulos and here is my talented team. Katya Kumkova is our senior producer. Lulu Smyth is our producer. Our sound engineers are Breen Turner and Sam Giovinco with original music by Metaphor Music. Topher Forhecz is our executive producer and our global head of Audio is Cheryl Brumley. Have a lovely weekend and we’ll find each other again on Monday.
